This edition of JeepNewsNow.com sponsored by:
 
CherokeeBill Proposed to Crush (literally) U.S. Cars with Crappy Gas Milage
Posted by mike on 2009/2/2 8:12:49 (2240) reads

From the "wait...really?" department comes this gem from the Specialty Equipment Marketers Association (SEMA, to mere mortals). It seems that some politicians are floating the idea of a bill that would provide cash for low-fuel efficiency vehicles, including Jeep Cherokees and Wranglers - in an effort to get them off the road, permanently.

It seems that they're looking to crush 4 million vehicles over the four years.

SEMA is spreading the word about all this craziness, in the form of a press release that outlines some of the reason that this is a bad idea, including:


  • Given the minimal $1,500-$4,500 voucher value, the program will lure rarely-driven second and third vehicles that have minimal impact on overall fuel economy and air pollution. This is not a wise investment of tax dollars.

  • The program will reduce the number of vehicles available for low-income individuals and drive up the cost of the remaining vehicles and repair parts. This is a basic supply-and-demand reality.

  • The program will remove the opportunity to market specialty products that are designed exclusively for the targeted pickups and SUVs, including equipment that increases engine performance and fuel mileage. Congress will be enacting a program to eliminate jobs and reduce business revenues in the automotive aftermarket.

  • The idea that the trucks and SUVs must be scrapped in order to save energy is irrational. The program's "carbon footprint" does not factor in the amount of energy and natural resources expended in manufacturing the existing car, spent scrapping it and manufacturing a replacement car.

  • The program fails to acknowledge driver needs, such as the ability to transport a family, tow a trailer or rely upon the performance, safety and utility characteristics associated with the larger vehicles. Instead, these vehicles will be destroyed.

  • There is no evidence that the program will achieve the goal of boosting new car sales or increasing fuel mileage. Many states have considered scrappage programs in the past as a way to help clean the air or increase mpg, but abandoned the effort because they simply don't work. The programs are not cost-effective and do not achieve verifiable fuel economy or air quality benefits.

  • The program will hurt thousands of independent repair shops, auto restorers, customizers and their customers across the country that depend on the used car market. This industry provides thousands of American jobs and generates millions of dollars in local, state and federal tax revenues.



Reader Reactions

The comments are owned by the poster.
We aren't responsible for their content.
You must login or register to post a comment.

Poster Thread
willie
Posted: 2009/3/10 12:16  Updated: 2009/3/10 12:16
Just popping in
Joined: 2006/8/28
From: brookfield, ohio
Posts: 1
 Re: Bill Proposed to Crush (literally) U.S. Cars with Cra...
i'm glad this bill died. there is no way in hell anyone is going to dictate to me what vehicle i drive. my '83 CJ5 will be with me till i die. i have no desire to drive an overpriced vehicle that i can't fix myself. and i'm damn sure not going to spend $30,000 on a vehicle to take off road and beat the hell out of it. the government has enough other programs it can't afford and can't run properly.

Poster Thread
HDCS
Posted: 2009/2/6 16:28  Updated: 2009/2/6 16:29
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2008/4/21
From:
Posts: 22
 Re: Bill Proposed to Crush (literally) U.S. Cars with Cra...
Mercifully, this bit of stupidity has been killed!

http://jalopnik.com/5148147/cash-for-clunkers-plan-dies-in-the-senate

Well in part anyway.

Poster Thread
lewt2007
Posted: 2009/2/5 17:48  Updated: 2009/2/5 17:48
Just popping in
Joined: 2008/2/23
From: Ohio
Posts: 3
 Re: Bill Proposed to Crush (literally) U.S. Cars with Cra...
ive got a few jeeps of my own and will not give them up due to the one is hard to get and the other is a 98 grand cherokee that just turned over the 200,000 mile mark on the odometer with jeeps legendary 4.0 six under the hood it gets around 24 to 30 miles to the gallon when run on cruse control on the highway

Poster Thread
JayBird
Posted: 2009/2/3 14:47  Updated: 2009/2/3 14:47
Quite a regular
Joined: 2005/9/12
From:
Posts: 41
 Re: Bill Proposed to Crush (literally) U.S. Cars with Cra...
Why are people blaming Obama for this? He has nothing to do with it. If you take the time to read the release, you'd see:

"Two lawmakers—Senator Diane Feinstein (D-CA) and Representative Henry Waxman (D-CA)—need to hear from SEMA members that their vehicle scrappage legislation is a waste of U.S. taxpayer dollars that will cost American jobs in the specialty auto market."

Feinstein, first elected in 1992, and Waxman, first elected in 1974, are proposing this. Not Obama. Not Biden. No one, in fact, in Obama's administration has suggested this. It is Feinstein and Waxman.

Before you start bashing Obama, maybe take the time to look at who is proposing the bill.

Poster Thread
AngryNJ
Posted: 2009/2/4 15:36  Updated: 2009/2/4 15:36
Quite a regular
Joined: 2006/4/25
From:
Posts: 59
 Re: Bill Proposed to Crush (literally) U.S. Cars with Cra...
Yeah. Blame liberal democrats. Not Obama... He's just the leader....

Poster Thread
01TJ
Posted: 2009/2/5 13:14  Updated: 2009/2/5 13:14
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2006/8/25
From:
Posts: 109
 Re: Bill Proposed to Crush (literally) U.S. Cars with Cra...
Obama and his administration is and will be the catalyst for other wackos to pass reduculous legislation in the name of reducing carbon footprints.

Poster Thread
myhotwheels22981
Posted: 2009/2/3 14:32  Updated: 2009/2/3 14:32
Home away from home
Joined: 2002/3/22
From:
Posts: 247
 Re: Bill Proposed to Crush (literally) U.S. Cars with Cra...
As far as GPS tracking of Mileage for road taxes, again There is no legal precedent to violate citizens Civil Rights to travel freely through tracking...that constitutes an electronic checkpoint every step you take...Make sure your Senator and Rep. know that you know.
Keep that in mind when you Vote Repub-Liken in 20-Ten.

This is a perfect example of Government agencies not even being in the same ball-park, let alone the same page...The President, and the Greenies through Congress want fuel efficient vehicles...Bush already raised the CAFE for all cars and trucks to 35 MPG, and OBAMA accelerated it to happen faster.

The current standard sets a truck's mileage by it's footprint (Wheelbase x width) the larger the footprint, the lower the mileage requirement...They have almost instantly killed the mini-truck market, because a fullsize pickup can get a lower mileage than a Mini Pickup.

Since gas stations collect the road tax through gasoline sales, with higher fuel efficiency standards, Hybrid and even electric vehicles making fewer stops to the gas station, that means fewer gas purchases and fewer taxes being paid.

Now, the Government can probably make a case for business vehicles to be tracked by GPS, because they operate under a State License, and trucks are where the big fuel purchases are made...
But Vote out your Congressmen if they vote for this Crap for private citizens' private movements to be TRACKED by Global Positioning Systems and collated into a centralized computer system for anyone to hack into and exploit your personal information...Where you shop, where you bank, where do you work, where you drop off your kids to school, when is the best time to steal your car, when are you out of state, when is the best time to break into your house, when is the best time to stalk your children, when is the best time to sexually assault you...

To round out the other side of the arguement, less and less road taxes will be collected, especially if the electric car takes off...If you install solar panels on your roof to charge your car, they cant even tax your electricity to charge your vehicle. The fact is that this all points toward the need for a FLAT TAX and a NATIONAL SALES TAX to replace the complicated and inconsistent taxing system currently in place in our country.

The only way to FAIRLY administer this proposal (this is for the sake of argument, I am still against this plan) is to use a GPS based odometer which is not unlike the toll collection boxes (we call them I-Pass in Illinois) that use a prepaid account. This odometer would only have enough memory to count miles driven, and not store any information involving where and when the car traveled...A Vehicle Tax I.D. would be assigned and collection sensors would read the mileage at various random points an random days, so that movement could not be tracked..This, of course would mean that you would need to fill out a separate tax form for your driving tax to get deductions for work miles driven, necessary miles like grocery shopping and doctor visits...if you opted out of the program, you would be taxed at the maximum rate with no deductions (Rod Blagovevich figured THAT one out)

Poster Thread
Jeepin
Posted: 2009/2/3 15:43  Updated: 2009/2/3 15:43
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/11/28
From: TX
Posts: 190
 Re: Bill Proposed to Crush (literally) U.S. Cars with Cra...
Why the need for a GPS-based odometer though? Why not simply use the existing odometer that's already in every vehicle on the road? Seems like a much cheaper and easier solution, plus there's no issues about trying to retrofit existing vehicles. Most states require yearly inspections and/or registration, so mileage could be read at that point in time and taxes assessed.

Sure, it'd be easier to bypass and alter your odometer to read lower, mainly on older vehicles, but I think the cost savings would out-weigh that fact. Plus, people would find a way to circumvent a GPS-based system too if they really wanted to. Even with sensors at "random" points taking readings on "random" days, you're still going to be able to pick out patterns eventually since a lot of driving is habitual, for lack of a better word (ie: same grocery stores, same schools, same work, same restaurants, etc).

HOWEVER! The downside to distance-based taxation is you basically eliminate any real incentive to drive more fuel efficient vehicles (assuming it replaces a fuel-based tax). Most people are really only interested in hybrids and such to cut the fuel costs. "Saving the planet" is an added bonus and secondary to saving their pocket book. The spike in fuel prices last year proved this fact as truck and SUV sales tanked while sales of fuel-efficient econoboxes and hybrids temporarily skyrocketed. This wasn't because of some mass epiphany to save the polar bears, it's because gas was damned expensive. If you take away a lot of the cost savings associated with fuel efficient vehicles, folks will just buy what they really want, which generally isn't some rinky-dink fuel-sipper.

Poster Thread
myhotwheels22981
Posted: 2009/2/4 0:54  Updated: 2009/2/4 1:01
Home away from home
Joined: 2002/3/22
From:
Posts: 247
 Re: Bill Proposed to Crush (literally) U.S. Cars with Cra...
EXACTLY my point (my goodness, somebody finally gets it)....yes, it would eliminate any incentive for more fuel efficient vehicles because you are now taxed on miles driven, not gallons consumed...

And as far as Waxman and Feinstein are concerned...there all in the tank for OBAMA...They're all in Ka-Hoots

The idea of a GPS odometer is to NOT hook it up to the car, because then 'the man' can shut you down--literally..I was only proposing an alternative view for fairness, I personally think the idea Sucks and will personally run for congress to wipe it off the books if it passes.

My other point ( I almost forgot, I got my Jeep- Jammies all in a bunch) was that this proposal creates another level of beuracracy that inefficiently continues an antiquated taxation system that can probably be traced back to the horse, the cart and the hay bale.

Flat Tax, National Sales Tax---Eliminate the Pork!

Poster Thread
MarkH
Posted: 2009/2/4 8:17  Updated: 2009/2/4 8:31
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/7/20
From: The Great White North
Posts: 494
 Re: Bill Proposed to Crush (literally) U.S. Cars with Cra...
Correctamundo!

Here's a couple links on this ill-conceived concept... and it looks like it's not just Oregon...
Oregon considering "mileage tax"
Minnesota considering mileage tax, too!

Poster Thread
myhotwheels22981
Posted: 2009/2/3 13:50  Updated: 2009/2/3 13:50
Home away from home
Joined: 2002/3/22
From:
Posts: 247
 Re: Bill Proposed to Crush (literally) U.S. Cars with Cra...
MMMMMMmmmmmm....I've got a taste for Pork...
Vote Repub-Liken in 20-Ten (Copywrighted-Mike Stawczyk Feb 03, 2009)

Poster Thread
MarkH
Posted: 2009/2/3 10:17  Updated: 2009/2/3 11:21
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/7/20
From: The Great White North
Posts: 494
 Re: Bill Proposed to Crush (literally) U.S. Cars with Cra...
I think everyone is missing the point. If all those junkers are scrapped, we can then clear the car lots of all the 08s that didn't sell, and start selling 09s.

That will certainly revitalize the auto industry, and keep the unions happy. Also, it should help revitalize the steel industry & a slew of other supporting manufacturing industries, just in time for the 2010 models.

You gotta think big picture here!

OK, I can't take my own sarcasm anymore! We asked for this Congress and this Administration and, boy, we're gonna get it... Does this "feel good" yet?

In a similar vein, did everyone hear about Oregon looking at TAXing their drivers based on per-mile-driven, instead of (or in addition to) per-gallon-of gas? Oh, yeah! They're even researching what kind of combined electronic GPS & odometer gizmo it would take to simply transmit the data to the state government... so they could send you the bill. You get charged more for driving during rush hours, too. Sweet! George Orwell is even scared!

Now, I'm starting to feel really guilty. My latte' is getting cold, too. So, where can I purchase my carbon offsets? And, do I have to buy more offsets if I cook my steak on charcoal?

Poster Thread
kevinsullivan30018
Posted: 2009/2/3 10:42  Updated: 2009/2/3 10:42
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2003/10/22
From:
Posts: 38
 Re: Bill Proposed to Crush (literally) U.S. Cars with Cra...
So, what am I supposed to drive then? I currently have 5 Jeeps, all titled, insured and running tip-top well, aged 12-25 years, none with less than 125,000 miles, and all paid for. If I sold them all, it wouldn't add up to half of one new GC Laredo. Just where is the incentive for me to crush one or more of them?

Poster Thread
MarkH
Posted: 2009/2/3 11:17  Updated: 2009/2/4 8:15
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/7/20
From: The Great White North
Posts: 494
 Re: Bill Proposed to Crush (literally) U.S. Cars with Cra...
Heck, you might be the only one who can profit from this deal AND feel good about reducing your carbon footprint.

They don't want you to sell 'em, and certainly, they don't want you to drive 'em. They want you to crush 'em! And for that "social awareness" you get $4500 x 5 = $25,500! [Revision: I'll be O.K. after one more Tanqueray Ten martini... ...that's $22,500, I know, but I fat-fingered it...]
Now, just put that towards a new $30,000 2WD Patriot EV, for which you'll get another cash incentive from the taxpayers... and then put solar panels on your garage, for which you'll get yet another cash incentive from the taxpayers, and you're all set!

Your conscience is now clear, your carbon footprint is smaller, and the billion-year-old hole in the O3 layer over Antartica is showing signs of closing, er umm, I mean "healing". Gee, why's is it so c-c-c-cold here???

Poster Thread
kevinsullivan30018
Posted: 2009/2/3 14:08  Updated: 2009/2/3 14:10
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2003/10/22
From:
Posts: 38
 Re: Bill Proposed to Crush (literally) U.S. Cars with Cra...
Which one should I crush first? The '57 Willys Utility Wagon, the '90 Grand Wagoneer, or the '85 Scrambler? Those are least "necessary" of the fleet. Why don't you just ask me which one of my kids has to die?

Mrs. Pelosi, you can keep your 30 pieces of silver. I'll keep my Jeeps.

Poster Thread
trevorj
Posted: 2009/2/3 3:34  Updated: 2009/2/3 3:34
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2006/6/30
From: Kelowna, BC
Posts: 124
 Re: Bill Proposed to Crush (literally) U.S. Cars with Cra...
I've said it before, I'll say it again.

The BEST thing *I* can do for the environment is to drive my LJ and WJ absolutely to their complete and utter demise. I want to be a one-man war on 'planned obsolescence' I'll hold out on buying a newer vehicle and contributing to THAT carbon footprint until I absolutely HAVE TO.

And if any of these pinkos don't like it, they can have my carbon footprint on their asses

Poster Thread
Renegade
Posted: 2009/2/2 22:56  Updated: 2009/2/2 22:57
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2005/8/11
From: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 80
 Re: Bill Proposed to Crush (literally) U.S. Cars with Cra...
I have a '98 XJ. It gets as good or better gas mileage as Jag 5 years younger. It gets better gas mileage that the same year Land Rover. Actually, it gets better mileage than any of the current model Land Mowers. Can we scrap them, too?



As an aside gentlemen, bills are proposed in the Legislative branch. If the pass through Congress they're signed by the Executive branch. So blame your Congressmen/women for this malarky.

Act now by writing your Senators & Reps, lads, and this'll never end up as pork on some a bill that the president is likely to sign...

Poster Thread
myhotwheels22981
Posted: 2009/2/2 20:49  Updated: 2009/2/2 20:50
Home away from home
Joined: 2002/3/22
From:
Posts: 247
 Re: Bill Proposed to Crush (literally) U.S. Cars with Cra...
Like all previous buy-out programs, this one is voluntary, and like all previous buy-out programs, it will largely fail.

Any mandatory surrender of a vehicle would constitute an Illegal and Unconstitutional Seizure of Private Property...That is why they are offering a pittance for a car...

The money, like all other OBAMA programs will dry up by dealers clearing out un-saleable vehicles on their used car lot, or people dragging in old hoop-dee's that barely run anyway (we wont miss that 1978 Olds 98 one bit)...Let's face it, when was the last time you saw a 1975 CJ-5 on a dealer lot?

Jeeps are safe because even 20 year old Jeeps run better than most 8 year old Rice Burners and Euro Trashed cars, and 20+ year old Jeeps still serve a purpose even if they are driven on weekends, vacations and during snow-storms...Their owners just arent going to give them up.

Poster Thread
01TJ
Posted: 2009/2/2 10:15  Updated: 2009/2/2 10:15
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2006/8/25
From:
Posts: 109
 Re: Bill Proposed to Crush (literally) U.S. Cars with Cra...
This is our new Obamanation of a government at work already! I am sooo glad people wanted "change". This is the time for people to write their reps. and demand this bill is not passed!

It would make much more sense to subsidize replacement engines for older vehicles. Allowing those who cannot afford an engine rebuild to get a fresh engine installed with better emission controls, higher fuel ecomonmy, hybrid systems options, etc. Created jobs in the automotive industry designing, producing and servicing these retro-fit systems into older vehicles and maintaining the aftermarket parts industry for chassis and body parts. It is the engines that are bad for the environment, not the cars themselves.

If I could have a 2000 XJ with a Diesel and/or hybrid system that performs well I would buy one today!

Poster Thread
01TJ
Posted: 2009/2/2 10:45  Updated: 2009/2/2 10:45
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2006/8/25
From:
Posts: 109
 Re: Bill Proposed to Crush (literally) U.S. Cars with Cra...
I just wrote my senators, will you?

Poster Thread
RUBICON
Posted: 2009/2/2 9:18  Updated: 2009/2/2 9:18
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/7/13
From:
Posts: 377
 Re: Bill Proposed to Crush (literally) U.S. Cars with Cra...
So let's fill our landfills with scrap parts that can't be recycled, etc. and then expend more energy resources to produce a new vehicle which will get minimally better fuel economy.

This is the most ridiculous piece of legislation I have ever heard.

I am all for the environment. I have been hoping Jeep would get off it's $*# and produce EV versions of all it's vehicles. They have the technology in two prototypes that seem production ready, so they should stop dragging their feet and produce them. I have also been hoping Jeep would ditch it's gasoline engines and source diesel engines from VW to boost its CAFE mileage. I have been hoping that it would go to chromium free leather and recycled wood trim in the Commander, Grand Cherokee, and Liberty.

But the idea of crushing perfectly good vehicles to increase fuel economy is plain stupid. The energy consumed to recycle what can be recycled from the old vehicles and the energy consumed to produce the new vehicles will most likely exceed the energy these vehicles would have consumed if just left to drive.

Poster Thread
bkcurtis
Posted: 2009/2/2 19:06  Updated: 2009/2/2 19:06
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/10/8
From: NW Indiana, USA
Posts: 154
 Re: Bill Proposed to Crush (literally) U.S. Cars with Cra...
There are some of us out here who do NOT want a diesel engine. Gas will do just fine and with some adjustments, MPG will be acceptable.
Main Menu
JeepNewsNow Everywhere
Login
Username:

Password:


Lost Password?

Register now!
Jeep Classifieds
Syndication - RSS
Add Jeep News Headlines to your site for free!

Display the latest Jeep news headlines on your Web site using our RSS 2.0 news feed!

RSS 2.0

Or, if you prefer, an even easier way of putting the headlines on your Web site is to utilize our free, JavaScript-based headlines. Check them out!
Who's Online
7 user(s) are online (1 user(s) are browsing News)

Members: 0
Guests: 7

more...
Advertisements
mike's totally free jeep news now is designed and maintained by AnelloConsulting.com
Copyright © 1998-2010 mike's totally free jeep news now
Privacy Policy | Disclaimer | Advertising Info