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WranglerBankruptcy Documents Lead to Questions About Wrangler's Future
Posted by mike on 2009/5/5 18:37:29 (2428) reads

Is Chrysler thinking about selling off the Jeep Wrangler? Really? Really?

According to documents from last week's bankruptcy filings, it seems that nothing is off the table:

His documents said a liquidation analysis of Chrysler "assumes that certain car lines and the plant assets supporting them will be sold as going-concern enterprises. These lines include Jeep Wrangler, Dodge Viper and Dodge Ram and Dakota truck lines."

But he delves deeply into the case of Jeep Wrangler, raising doubts about its ability to attract a buyer or survive as a stand-alone entity.

"The example of the Jeep Wrangler is instructive," Manzo writes in his affidavit. "A potential buyer would face significant additional investment costs in the range of $550 million to $1 billion.

"These additional costs include in excess of $100 million for signage to establish a dealer network, supplier-related costs exceeding $250 million and upwards of another $150 million in associated marketing costs to relaunch the car line. There are likely other significant costs that a potential buyer would have to incur in order to re-establish the brand. In addition, recent market experience reflected in the efforts to sell Saturn, Opel, Saab and Hummer brands indicates an extremely depressed market for stand-alone automotive brands."

You'll want to check out the full article from Edmunds.com.

UPDATE: 5/7/09 - Dave from AllPar is the voice of reason - he sets the record straight with this post. Thanks, Dave!

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highdesert
Posted: 2009/5/13 11:42  Updated: 2009/5/13 11:42
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2006/1/9
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Posts: 34
 Re: Bankruptcy Documents Lead to Questions About Wrangler...
Living in a rural area with an abundance of dirt roads, I find the notion of limited range complex EV jeeps as somewhat ludicrous. Consider ... the rest of the world has been using diesel for some time and reaping the benefits of low rpm torque (like electric motors) and thirty percent fuel increases over gasoline. VW has demonstrated diesel to be cleaner than gasoline engines. The overall vehicle technology is greener and far simpler than hybrid relative to manufacturing and recycling costs. Biodiesel derivatives go not suffer from the mileage losses of ethanol and other combustibles and can be even be made from algae. Most of the world outside of NA has been using diesel in its 4x4s and more than fifty percent of the autos in Europe use diesel. Jeep manufactures Patriots in the US with turbo diesels, six speed manual trannies and ships them off to other parts of the world because they demand high fuel economy vehicles. For now, let's keep it simple ... has that not been the Jeep ethos.

Poster Thread
porter
Posted: 2009/5/13 15:37  Updated: 2009/5/13 15:37
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Posts: 17
 Re: Bankruptcy Documents Lead to Questions About Wrangler...
In reply to highdesert's post on diesel Wranglers. I totally agree that the US is slow to adopt diesel. The main problem with clean diesel is California clean air restrictions. The current diesel Wrangler sold in Europe passes clean air standards in like 48 states but without passing Californian emissions Jeep will not release this version in the US. Reducing the sulfur / acid rain causing emissions of diesel is a problem requiring special engines and low sulfur blends and or additives like urea etc. Bio-diesel fuel distribution would need to be built up to be truly green, but it's doable.

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myhotwheels22981
Posted: 2009/5/8 10:55  Updated: 2009/5/8 10:55
Home away from home
Joined: 2002/3/22
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Posts: 247
 Re: Bankruptcy Documents Lead to Questions About Wrangler...
The EV option is Very Viable, and as a matter of fact, probably more so than a CNG/LPG option because there is no consistent infrastructure for gas. Sure there are filling stations, but not as many as gas stations. An extended range EV would work out much better, with charging taking place at home, possibly using stored energy from solar cells or a small wind turbine.

I would like to see a NUVERA Reformer-Powered Wrangler EV with Hub Mounted Motors and an extended range battery pack.

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01TJ
Posted: 2009/5/7 15:52  Updated: 2009/5/7 15:52
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Posts: 109
 Re: Bankruptcy Documents Lead to Questions About Wrangler...
I don't think the Wrangler or Jeep brand is going anywhere any time soon. The real version of this information is stating that selling off Jeep is NOT desirable.

As far as the American spirit, it is gone. Replaced with fat, docker wearing selfish people that only want to make more money than the guy next door.

If there isn't any money in something it will not get done. Just look at the track record for energy, etc. Unless the Government (aka tax payers) subsdize something it doesn't get done.

Poster Thread
davert
Posted: 2009/5/6 20:14  Updated: 2009/5/6 20:14
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 Re: Bankruptcy Documents Lead to Questions About Wrangler...
Oh, for heaven's sake. YOU CANNOT TAKE THIS ARTICLE SERIOUSLY. IT IS WRONG. What's more, SHAME on Edmunds for publishing anything by that ninny.

I'm still waiting for someone to post a correction here or there.

She took something from the "this is why we're not liquidating" section and made it seem like a real plan. Fellas, that's NOT the plan.

Poster Thread
tmedlock
Posted: 2009/5/6 9:12  Updated: 2009/5/6 9:12
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2007/1/11
From: New Hampshire
Posts: 83
 Re: Bankruptcy Documents Lead to Questions About Wrangler...
Hum, lets see now. Sales of Saturn, Opel, Saab and Hummer vehicles are in the toilet an have been for a while. Sales of Jeep Wrangles are 7% higher then the same month last year. I wonder if that makes any difference to someone buying a car brand? Can you say "lets compare apples and oranges"?

Poster Thread
davert
Posted: 2009/5/5 21:00  Updated: 2009/5/5 21:00
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 Re: Bankruptcy Documents Lead to Questions About Wrangler...
Actually, this is a result of bad reporting. You'll want to read the serious report at allpar: http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2009/05/jeep-ram-to-stay-with-newco/

Poster Thread
porter
Posted: 2009/5/6 12:15  Updated: 2009/5/6 17:39
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 Re: Bankruptcy Documents Lead to Questions About Wrangler...
No auto is more iconicly American than the Jeep Wrangler. America grew up with Jeep. Its history begins with the troops in WWII and has endured as no other automobile has. Jeep represents the American freedom loving go anywhere do anything attitude, and I see the problems with Jeep as parallel with the problems in America. And dare I say it, the day the Jeep Wrangler is killed is the day America is no longer American. What kind of country are we going to be? Are we Japanese driving small stylish cars, are we European with small practical cars, or are we Americans driving do anything Jeeps? What say you?

One last thought. Wouldn’t it just be wrong if the VW Bug (Hitler’s people car and Auto icon of Germany) is still in production but Jeep Wranglers are not?

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JayBird
Posted: 2009/5/6 14:02  Updated: 2009/5/6 14:02
Quite a regular
Joined: 2005/9/12
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Posts: 41
 Re: Bankruptcy Documents Lead to Questions About Wrangler...
What do I say? I say that as soon as a Jeep Wrangler can show better than 28 mpg it will be worth the expense. So, whoever makes the Wrangler better get the EV option rolling ASAP.

Poster Thread
porter
Posted: 2009/5/6 15:39  Updated: 2009/5/6 15:51
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Posts: 17
 Re: Bankruptcy Documents Lead to Questions About Wrangler...
The EV concept does look interesting and I would love the try one out when the technology is ready, unfortunately this is not a viable option today. However, Jeep could put out very green Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) vehicles today with very little effort if they wanted to with no need to invent anything or add cost. I inquired about CNG and Jeep wrote back and said thanks but no thanks. Am I and T. Boone Pickens the only ones who think CNG is a great idea? If there were incentives to do so you could have your own CNG station in your own home, fill up your green CNG vehicles at home, pay a reasonable amount for the fuel, and break America's dependence on foreign oil all in one step. Oh by the way lots of CNG vehicles would help take a big bite out of global warming as a bonus. There is also no reason we can’t combine CNG and EV for a super green Jeep. Where is American innovation, ingenuity, and determination when we need it? Anybody out there still have some American spirit in them?

Poster Thread
tmedlock
Posted: 2009/5/7 7:06  Updated: 2009/5/7 7:06
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2007/1/11
From: New Hampshire
Posts: 83
 Re: Bankruptcy Documents Lead to Questions About Wrangler...
While it may be true that a puddle of gas on the ground is no less dangerous then a vapor cloud of CNG escaping from a crashed car I very much doubt that you will ever convince the public of that. As unrealistic as it may be, the image of a car exploding when leaking gas vapor reaches the hot exhaust manifold is embedded in the publics mind. You could be totally correct that CNG is no more dangerous then “natural” liquid gas. But, my bet is, “it ain’t going to happen”!

Poster Thread
porter
Posted: 2009/5/7 12:52  Updated: 2009/5/7 12:52
Just popping in
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Posts: 17
 Re: Bankruptcy Documents Lead to Questions About Wrangler...
The fear of explosion is a common fear with CNG and Hydrogen fuel cells. It's good that you brought up this common concern so we can talk about it.

For the sake of argument pretend for a sec that we were already using CNG and wanted to convert to Gasoline. This would be the list of arguments against using such a dirty and dangerous fuel as Gasoline.

1. CNG is Green and Gasoline is not. Gasoline is toxic and can contaminate ground water requiring HazMat teams when spilled. CNG is completely non-toxic. Gasoline has much higher CO2 emissions than CNG and is very bad for the environment increasing Global Warming.
2. Supporting Gasoline weakens America. Gasoline as a primary Auto fuel increase our dependence on foreign oil and give countries that are enemies of the United States the financing to oppose our national interests resulting is a less stable world.
3. CNG is lighter than air and will disperse into the atmosphere very quickly. Gasoline will pool and will not disperse quickly prolonging the time that the fuel can ignite.
4. Natural Gas has a much more limited range of flammability and will not burn in concentrations below 5% or above 15%. Gasoline and Diesel ignite at much lower temperatures and concentrations than CNG.
5. Natural Gas odorant can be detected at 5x lower concentrations than Gasoline vapors allowing you to detect leaks and clear the areas sooner.
6. Gasoline fuel tanks are much thinner and rupture much more easily than CNG tanks. CNG cylinders must pass burn tests without rupturing and are even bulletproof. Gasoline tanks are not fireproof or bulletproof.
7. Safety studies show the following:
7a. The NGV vehicle injury rate was 37% lower than the gasoline fleet vehicle rate.
7b. There were no fatalities with CNG compared with 1.28 deaths per 100 million miles for gasoline vehicles.
8. Insurance companies endorse CNG over Gasoline.
"Nationwide Insurance, in looking at the safety of natural gas buses in a fleet, concluded as
long ago as 1992 that “…the natural gas powered vehicles will be the safest vehicles in
your fleet and (we) have no reservations about insuring them.” (Palmer, Pat, Nationwide
Insurance, letter to Kenneth E. Bauman Bus, Inc., September 10, 1992)"

Food for thought; there is always inertia in making any change even if that change is for the better. There is no technical reason why you cannot have an environmentally friendly and safe Wrangler other than the lack of will to make it happen. My point has been that the American spirit is the spirit that makes things happen while others stand around and watch. This is the spirit that carried us to the moon and the spirit that built the technical revolution enabling you and I to chat right now. Where is the American Spirit today? Has it been outsourced to Honda and Toyota who lead the world in Hybrid, EV, CNG, and Hydrogen vehicles?
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