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MiscellaneousJeep loses another round to Hummer
Posted by mike on 2002/12/2 0:00:00 (1007) reads

DaimlerChrysler has lost its second round in its lawsuit against GM

From The Globe and Mail:

In an ongoing battle of torts, General Motors has won yet another round in a heavyweight tussle with title rival DaimlerChrysler. Last week a U.S. appeals court put DC down for the count when it upheld an earlier lower court ruling that the 7-bar grille design of the General's hefty Hummer H2 sport-utility didn't run afoul of DaimlerChrysler's trademark Jeep grille.

DaimlerChrysler initially sought an injunction a year ago - just before the Hummer made its market debut - in an attempt to force its corporate rival to revise the H2's grille layout. DC's argument was that the seven vertical bars on the Jeep's front end, a traditional arrangement that dates back to the Jeeps' World War Two origins, constituted a "brand image" and wanted the General to beat a hasty retreat from the Hummer's similar treatment.

But the three judge Court of Appeals panel put its fire power behind GM, ruling that it agreed with the earlier ruling which found that DC's claim "showed virtually no chance of success on the merits." A DaimlerChrysler spokesperson indicated the company was unhappy with the decision and intended to review its options.

...snip...

When Chrysler filed its first injunction against the H2, the General counter attacked with its own suit, charging that its rival had waived whatever claims it had on the distinctive grille by remaining silent after the original H1 Hummer hit the streets in 1991.

Though the H2 model doesn't fight directly with any current Jeep products, an anticipated H3 version with an expected $45,000 to $50,000 sticker could be seen as an invader on Jeep's soil. General Motors is projecting annual sales of about 40,000 Hummer H2s and around 1,000 H1 units.

Be sure to check out the entire article.

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Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: 4x4 4 fun
sorry Stew. Wrong again. AMG (General)owns the Hummer name.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: dill
hey ghost they shouldnt be focusing on other cars companies, they should be focusing on making thier cars better, in order to blow the other posers outta the water. thats how you win, not buy winning some lawsuit.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: ghost of cjs past
here is my comment

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: "The Big Three" (Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherok
There was an above post stating the differences about Chrysler and DC. At first, DC was a pain in the ass by changing Jeep. But now, it seems, DC is coming around, and nearly fully understanding the true legend that Jeep really is. And, as far as the grille goes, I think it is important to keep the grille. I remember when I was a little kid and I loved the Wranglers simply because of their adventure appearance. The grille, headlights, tailights, and the hood were some of those characteristics that I noticed, and I noticed them before I even knew it was a Jeep; that says something.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Matt
here is my comment Check out www.car-truck.com in their "buzz" section. DC in October of 2000 axed the next gen GC because they already had a "superior" SUV in development (the next gen M-class). This was changed about a year or so later when they realized that the M-class was not "rugged enough" to be re-badged as a Jeep. As far as Dieter Zeschte at Camp Jeep, I believe it was either Camp Jeep 2001 (which I attended), or 2002 that I saw pictures of him there (he was in the engineering tent I believe). As to the Hummer, the H2 has lockers, but not an automatic system like Quadra-drive. Quadra-drive is widely regarded by off-roaders as probably the best system out there. I also read in Motor Trend's SUV of the Year test that although the Hummer could go anywhere (due to the lockers), there was a hill that the Hummer could not make it through with it's diffs open that the Volvo SUV made it through with no problem.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Matt
here is my comment--I understand what Jeep is trying to do, and I think it is fairly obvious that Hummer is trying to copy Jeep. Whatever you think of the Liberty, it is still the most off-road capable vehicle in it's class. Justlook at Hummer's slogan: "Hummer- like nothing else." Sound familiar? "Jeep- there's only one." And then you look at the grill design, and realize what they are trying to do. I really don't see the problem with DC's current direction for Jeep. I think what we had before was the awkward first years of a marriage. DC did not understand what Jeep meant when they first bought the company. They made bone-headed statements like "We don't need a new Grand Cherokee because we already have a 'superior' SUV (the next M-class). But then Dieter Zetsche started going to Camp Jeep and other events, and realizing that Jeep was different, they restarted the new Jeep project because the M-class wasn't "rugged enough" to be the next Grand Cherokee. Now we see the lineup will be expanded below the Wrangler, and above the GC. And they have made great quality improvements as well. Remember, before Bob Lutz and Chrysler, ALL jeeps were NOT required to be Rubicon capable. Ever see a Grand Wagoneer (stock) on the Rubicon? There is nothing wrong with expanding the lineup to include a larger vehicle that is best in it's class, but maybe not Rubicon capable. As to the Hummer, by virtue of it's price it is a poser. We have plenty of them here in South Jersey, with not a speck of mud on them. My 2001 Grand has mud all over the hood as I write this.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Patrick
Perhaps it has more to do with Jeeps new ad slogan featuring the classic grill with the round headlights, which the H2 does replicate, than two vehicles looking similar. We must remember all classic SUVs were slab sided with round headlights, and probably vertical grills.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Utah
well...I think that is the point.

Why would anyone confuse a Hummer with a Jeep, simply because of the grill?

So, for Jeep to pursue a lawsuit to protect it's grill slot design is simply silly in my mind, especially if Jeep is worried that people might confuse the two.

I think when someone goes to plunk down $50k...they will have a fairly good idea of which brand they are purchasing.

Does Jeep think that people are stupid? I'm glad they are losing this legal battle.

The whole issue of companies suing on the basis of trademark infringement often gets ridiculous.

Case in point...Nissan suing the owner of Nissan.com , which I believe was a computer retailer named Nissan. Now the owners name was Nissan. The name Nissan computers was registered to him....and he had legally registered the name Nissan.com for his computer business.

Does...Nissan the car manufacturer have claim to that name forever...simply because they are larger?

Now...apparently, the owner of Nissan.com did have advertising links to car sites on his site...which he profited from. And that ultimatly was a factor in the legal decision.

But..still, it seems he has as much fair right to HIS given name...as a corporation should have. At least to me.

Yet...he lost in the lawsuit. There are many similar situations out there.

It just seems unfair that corporations should be able to have exclusive rights, in the area of "given" names.

Or grill slot openings.


Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: JeepNUT
Hmmm, lets see...the MB had 9 slots in it's grill, the XJ Cherokee (until 1997) had 8, the Grand Cherokee had 8 too! Get over it, they are cooling slots for gods sake. Are they going to patend 8, and 9 slot grills too?

Hint for DC, get over it and make more Rubicon type Jeeps! I wouldn't care how many slots are on the grill.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: MalcomXJ
I would agree that DC's focus should be less on marketing attributes and more on marketable engineering, but there are rumors of a H2-like Commander that's set to debut in the next couple of years. The model is rumored to be a virtual look-alike to the Hummer product. They may be attempting to throw some water on the marketing fire that GM has with Hummer in anticipation of introducing a competitive product.

Whether DC's legal case has merit or not, from my perspective Hummer has as much right to the seven-slot grille considering they've been manufacturing them with the HUMVEE's and Hummer for over a decade without challenge.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Stew
You're right. I meant AMC, since they're the ones that make the Hummer.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: dill
what do you mean "misses" they never even owned jeep!

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Stew
LOL, I do have to say, we are a stubborn people, aren't we?

On another note; it does seem that GM misses Jeep. Agree?

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: JASON
HEY DC,IF YOU HAVE ALL THIS MONEY TO PISS AWAY YOU COULD FEEL FREE TO TAKE A FEW THOUSAND DOLLARS OFF MY NEXT PURCHASE.I LOVE JEEP AND I ALWAYS WILL BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS YOU S
EWED UP! NOW LETS MOVE ON.IF IT WAS REALLY A MATTER OF THE TRADE MARK YOU WOULD HAVE RAISED HELL WHEN THE HUMMER 1 USED IT. H2 IS NARROWING THE GAP IN PRICE AND NOW ALL OF THE SUDDEN YOUR DIE HARD JEEP COMPANY. I ACTUALLY GLADE TO SEE YOU GET WHAT MY FATHER USE TO CALL A GOOD SWIFT BOOT IN THE ASS. DC WAKE UP AND BRING THE JEEP DIVISION BACK TO ITS FULL GLORY.TAKE SOME OF THIS MONEY AND BROADEN THE LINE AGAIN.IT IS WAY PAST TIME.DC SHOULD SPEND SOME TIME READING COMMENTS AT THIS SITE FROM REAL JEEP OWNERS AND APPLY THEM.WE WANT ALL STYLES AND SIZES OF WRANGLERS,CHEROKEES,GRAND CHEROKEES,FULL SIZE WAGONEERS,COMANCHES,J-10S & J-20S. THIS WOULD BE MONEY WELL SPENT. IF YOU BUILD IT THEY WILL SELL! JEEP FOREVER---

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: ghost of cjs past
I think I'd have to take the seemingly unpopular position of agreeing with DC on this one- even if they are ten years too late. My reason for doing so is simple: Jeep's grille layout (7,8, or 200 slots) is it's identifying badge, much as the 'bowtie' is Chevrolet's.
As far as confusion on the part of consumers and potential consumers goes- Willys trademarked the Jeep name a half century ago, yet to this day it is not uncommon to hear idiots refer to ANY 4wd vehicle as a "jeep".
It is not unreasonable for the honchos at DC to try to retain some of the Jeep's unique identity, even if those of us in the know are already aware of the difference.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Larry Greenwood
here is my comment--It appears that if you want a new Jeep Cherokee because you like the timeless boxy look, you will have to consider purchasing a hummer. Maybe DC will get smart and produce a hummer lookalike in the form of a new and boxy Jeep Cherokee. I hope that DC has not destroyed the equipment to revived the cherokee sometime in the future when they realize their mistake.




Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Dill
volvo makes an suv? lol

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: to hell with hondas
hey matt i totally agree with you with everything you said exept the beginning part. i mean even though hummer can copy the grille design, and the slogan, they really cant copy anything about the jeep itself. they cant copy the lockers or the engine or anything like that. if hummer did, then dc would have grounds to sue them, not over a grille. on another note, did dieter zeiche really go to camp jeep?? and they were going to replace the grand cherokee with that m class crap? when was this?

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: CJ5 for me
with the concept on the right, it kinda looks from the from like the JJ concept of the early 90s mixed with an avalanche with the H2 doors. Pretty ugly if you ask me.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Hummer_prophecy
Rich, check out the concept drawings of the h3
at www.hummer3.net. The one on the left
looks very much like a cherokee in my opinion.
It also clearly resembles the h2. The
difference between a hummer and a jeep may
be clear today, but with the addition of the h3
and possibly an h4 soon afterwards, the
distinction may become blurred.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: RICH
WHO THE HELL ARE YOU PEOPLE WHO CONFUSE A
FREAKIN' HUMMER FOR A CHEROKEE????

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Utah
I too have watched with interest how the Hummer 2 has hit the market.

Clearly a super success...as dealers are getting well over list price for them.

And curious...that an expensive and capable offroader can be so visually appealing...and yet share the classic Utility looks of the Cherokee.

And...despite I guess good sales of the Liberty...many (myself included) question it's goofy appearance.

Back during the heavy Cherokee/Liberty debates...I often championed the "Classic" styling of the Cherokee vrs the Liberty's newfangled look.

In a way...it is rewarding to see a new and popular rig like the H2 borrow heavily from the same "Classic" look as the beloved Cherokee

So...in the end...if people confuse my 2000 Black Cherokee sport for a $50k plus Hummer....

well...I think I am ok with that, despite what DC thinks about the matter.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: CJ5 for me
hey hummer guy, i dont think that hummer has "out jeeped" jeep. first of all, the H2, even though it has got more practical, is still not perfect. There still is a sticker price of over 50k. That is NOT a very jeep price. (even for a grand cherokee). even though the hummer is a very capable vehicle, the Jeep has many more advantages, and is much more capable. I have seen it myself.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Larry
here is my comment

It is interesting to note that the hummer looks a lot like the discontinued Cherokee when viewed from a distance and at certain angles. The fact that the hummer looks more like a jeep than a liberty makes you wonder if the jeep soul has moved over the hummer.

The cherokee could have been marketed as a low end hummer look alike, had DC really understood the jeep thing. A little tweaking with the inside would have made a huge difference. But then the DC marketing folks have probably never driven a jeep.

The hummer is the "second coming" of the jeep.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Hummer_Prophecy
I disagree that hummer isn't a threat to jeep. I
think that after the introduction of the h2, GM
has shown that under the brand name of
Hummer, it is poised to supplant jeep by
"out-jeeping" it. Jeep turned away from what I
saw as its image when it built the Liberty. It
was an especially painfull event because I
had seen the Dakar and new what could have
been. If GM builds an H3 that still looks like
an h2 (in other words, they don't "avalanche"
it), then Jeep may fall on hard times. At the
very least, they'll have lost me.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: "The Big Three" (Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherok
I'm extremely glad DC is standing up for Jeep in this instance, and it seems DC recognizes Jeep as a strong brand with a rich heritage, but they are obviously seemingly trying to change that heritage. I don't think DC is trying to get rid of the current Hummer grille, but they very obviously want GM and all the other automakers out there know that they had better not tread on Jeep's soil. DC, I believe, is trying to establish a barrier. I don't necassarily see the Hummer as a strong threat to Jeep, in fact the Hummer is a Jeep anyway. But, with the Hummer lowering its prices, and with the "Cheap Jeeps" around, DC is making sure that in the future no manufacturers will try to cross the barrier Jeep so well established.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: MalcomXJ
Shawn has it: The "Commander" rumor can be found at http://www.car-truck.com/chryed/buzz/b112702.htm, complete with an artist's conception (i.e.: a guess).

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Shawn
I too thought that everyone can tell the difference between a Jeep and a Hummer, until on Thankgiving, when I was told by my mother to go look at my uncle's new Cherokee. Obviously confused with new and Cherokee, I proceeded outside to see a H2. When I corrected her, she stated that it looked like the Cherokee I use to drive. Granted, my mother is no automotive fan (actually drives a jacked up Camry... oh sorry RX300), but I believe this is the fear of DC... an uninformed consumer. I also agree with the above post in regard to the Commander SUV, as support by car-truck.com.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Jeep Lover
Imitation is the greatest form of flattery.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: CJ5 for me
what do you mean "commando"? like the commando jeeps of the 60s? or a new body style?

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: to hell with hondas
oh dc would you just stop with this nonsence? i think any retard could tell the differance between a hummer and jeep. stop wasting good money on lawsuits and lawyers when it could be spent on better things, like some new parts, or maybe even a well deserved raise for the jeep engineers. this is one battle you dont have to fight.
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