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MiscellaneousHummer Becoming the New Jeep?
Posted by mike on 2004/8/3 0:00:00 (639) reads

Major auto publication asks the question.

WardsAuto.com has an article about how GM's Hummer division is taking advantage of the "confusion" at Jeep to become the first name out of consumer's mouths when they think "off-road". Here's a snippet:

Jeep is the veteran. It had pickups in the 1940s, a convertible in the 1950s and controlled the SUV market in 1993 with almost 30% share.

Hummer is the newcomer, becoming a civilian in 1992, and changing its name to H1 after the brand was purchased by General Motors in 1999.

Under GM, Hummer has ambitious growth plans to show it isn’t a 1-trick pony.

The H2 fullsize SUV, introduced in 2002, proved wildly successful. To address the inevitable sales wane, an H2 SUT (sport/utility truck), has been added to the lineup, and a pickup has not been ruled out.

The big volume and appeal is coming in 2005, with the midsize H3 that will charge straight into Jeep territory.

GM also is working on the business case for a compact H4, a challenge given the unflinching mandate that every Hummer be a rear-drive, premium SUV, SUT or pickup that is extremely off-road capable. No exceptions.

“It would be a cold day in hell before we had a Hummer that was not capable,” says Gary White, GM vice president in charge of fullsize trucks. “We have other brands to do that.”

...snip...

Jeep’s product renaissance is not due until ’06 and ’07. By that time, GM may have converted a large percentage of Jeep purists who view Hummer as the Jeep of old.

For the first time in its history, Jeep may find itself mired in terrain it can’t successfully crawl out of.

Be sure to check out the entire article.

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Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Dan
I guess alot of you guys who say the Hummer will overtake Jeep are pretty wealthy. I can afford a Jeep, most average folks can't afford a H1 or H2, especially if you're going off road.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: jim
here is my comment
Hummer lives on the image of the H1
you take immage offroad and run it hard, you need a capable vehicle for that
besides the H1, hummer does not produce a great offroad vehicle. The H2 is alright, but it is a urban grocery getter first. Face it how can you geta 51 g vehicle sold to guys who want to trash it offroad. they do alright, but will never be rock Jocks. Now they are cutting into the Grand Cherokee market, and that market is ruled by image. Jeep, nomatter who has owned them has stepped on thier foot time after time when it has come to market prowness. And they probably will here too. Hummer is up to bat and jeep only has a 3 product line.
What jeep needs to do is release the Rescue, Put a J truck out. and a full size SUV. but that will take time and money.
Plus some well placed products in rough and tough movies, Like I said it's image to the Average american

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: porshaman
here is my comment. The fact of the matter is they are comparing apple to oranges. Pound for pound dollar for dollar the JEEP is a winner. The same people that buy H's are the same that buy Range Rovers, Lexuses, Infinitis, etc. Why do they buy them and believe me it's not go off roading ... because they can. For my money (and signifcantly less ego) its the JEEP every time. I do agree with a number of posts that DC should take more advantage of JEEP heritage and produce vehicles that can tear it up off road but be relatively civil on road...case in point the Rubi. Dieter can you hear us????

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: STLouie
Well Hummer will take over Damnler-chrysler and Jeep if they dont come up with a decent product soon. Instead of mass-producing street vehicles with IFS and unibody construction like every other automobile manufacturer, they need to start producing trucklike offroad performers of good quality and maintainablity. Bring back the special editions such as the Laredo and Renegade and make them affordable. They would be instantly bought up and Jeep could become #1 again. Hummer is doing things right and headed in the right direction. If things keep up all youll see on the trails are H-whatevers and custom-built rigs that started life as an overpriced, underperforming Jeep.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Allrighty Then
DC is and has done it to themselves, letting the hummer brand become the new jeep. Go on and deny all you hardcore jeep purist if you so wish but its true. DC is way to slow in making changes to its product line. They might as well sell Nokia phones since they are both just as slow to make changes and lose market share that is very very tough to regain.....

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: WTJ
Hummer developed its unique brand DNA in the same manner as
did Land Rover in the U.S. Aside from the few Series models
introduced in the ’50s, ’60s, and ’70s, the first real Land Rover
model which caused a sensation (in the U.S.) was the Range
Rover. The Range Rover is to Land Rover as the H2 is to Hummer
(i.e. more luxury and higher comfort levels combined with
comparable off-highway performance). The upcoming
introduction of the H3, like the Discovery Series I for Land Rover,
will be, I predict, another hit for Hummer because of its more
manageable size and greater efficiency. The problem with the
Jeep brand is that it has lost its exclusivity with such boring,
mass-marketed vehicles like the Liberty, and even the Grand
Cherokee. Like the TJ and its variants, Jeep needs to offer more
unique, true-to-the-marque vehicles. Additionally, those
vehicles should be sold in relatively few numbers, so as to
maintain, not diminish, the brand’s DNA. Jeep needs to stay
distinctive and not try to compete with other high-volume
sellers such as Ford, Honda, and Toyota. The reason why the
Hummer Brand is such a hit is because it is inimitable, giving
each owner a sense of superiority over other vehicles.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Douglas
"HUMMER" is......and was the Old JEEP!!! All GM did was creatively gather its best people to brainstorm...and buyout a Co. which was looking for a new owner...I don't know it's most recent name..but was known at one time as AM General...YEP the JEEP PEOPLE..who split off (maybe in '80-'81? dunno) when Renault came a buyin...So really the Hummer is more JEEP than the present DCX Jeep unit..That's one reason I had converted FROM GM..My family also..because GM had no SUV worth buying..That new H3T concept is very nice indeed..But instead of starting HUMMER as a basic model..AKA M-Jeep..They've just hit hard from the other side...Giving us the BEST Hummer (H1) and then downsizing the recipe...(H2,H3T..) to establish a BRAND...This is what DCX shuold have done....Bring AM General and JEEP back together as one...But GM beat 'em to it. It's kind of ironic using former Jeep/AM General plants and workforce to build a GM product with GM sourced material..but there ya go.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Bowser
“It would be a cold day in hell before we had a Hummer that was not capable,” says Gary White

Haha, funny how all of the current Jeeps, including the Liberty, have better articulation than the H2. Also, I believed the XJ had better wheel travel than the humvee, although I'm not sure. Just think about it, the humvee is a stiff vehicle, the cherokee flexes.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: scrambler013
Hummers capable. I don't think so. I have seen H2's get stuck on stumps while locked in 4 wheel drive. Those things suck(gas and offroad). I would NEVER be caught dead in one of them. They will NEVER be as good as a Jeep. It is that simple!

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: rich
PLLEEEAAAZZe! Convert Jeep enthusiasts at
$50-60,000 a pop! Right.While I've always worried
that Hummer might smarten up and produce a smaller vehicle (more Jeep-like), it's still the Escalade crowd buying these things to make them look more off road savvy..

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: comment
i've said it all along dc is too SLOW in producing new jeep products, i hope the boys @ dc get wind of this and try boosting production on "whatever" products they are thinking about for 06 & 07.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: JT
The only way I would consider an H2, H3, or whatever would be if GM would downsize or use a similiar platform in their smaller Hummers as in the Military HUMVEE. I used to drive a HUMVEE ambulance in the service, and it would handle the toughest terrain imaginable with ease, except deep sand and narrow trails. But I don't think that's likely to happen. Long live the Wrangler!

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: ff
The scariest thing is the idea that "Hummer" will stand for off road vehicles; not "Jeep". The way DC is taking the company, it will be no suprise when this happens. While Hummer is sticking to every vehicle will be rear wheel drive, solid axle, off road capable.......Jeep is off trying to use the brand name's popularity to sell non off road vehicles. Once the strong Jeep name is gone......so is the brand.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Gilles
here is my comment My Cherokee(jeep, suv originator)((Wagoneer)) gets me where i want to be with all my gear plus room for the dog. All that i am reading is people falling for sales hype and soccer-mom frenzy. The only problem i have with DC is the sourcing of sub-standard components.(renault transHA)

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: ARK
here is my comment It does not matter to jeep purists what G.M. does to the H whatever.
We have been changing , modifying , and upgrading our vehicles for years and will continue to do so. As for new models , take a page from the japanese. Make everything Hemiwrangler , convertible liberty , wranglerpickup , but make sure they can go anywhere right out of the box. A new model every 6 months or so should hold everyones interest and if you do make something that doesnt have proper offroad capability call it something else like.......PLYMOUTH!!! Yeah thats a name no one is using anymore .

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Douglas
Or whatever the heck his name is.....LOL

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Douglas
If Mr. Deiter doesn't bother to visit and/or read the most popular JEEP site there is.....HE SHOULD BE FIRED!!! All the posts here collectively represent what us JEEPERS want in our products....Hopefully Porsha...He or some undersecretary is paying attention.....The HUMMER people are; that's for sure.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Robb
here is my comment

I guess gM figured that if they couldn't design and buil a decent off roader to compete with Jeep, they'd just buy one. As far as becoming the "new Jeep" is concerned, when I start seeing Hummer owners being more than off road posers, then I'll be impressed.

'Nuff said!

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Andrew
Well I always get upset reading about jeeps changing and the beginning of the end for me when they brought out the liberty and took away the cherokee. I absolutely hate new cars, i just dont understand the ugly styling and shapes and everything is so much bigger and just ugly. I cant stand to see a new car. Thats what i hate about the H2 besides that it cant go anywhere, its just so ugly, I wouldnt mind having an old military humvee for about 20-25 thousand barely running but running enough to have fun in. I hate the way DC is taking Jeep following everyother car company most likely started with japanese styling. Anyways I get all upset and worried and then I remember that I can always buy and old wrangler (which will cost less anyways) and I am a little more happy, but I will still have to see all the ugly cars everyday.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: dustytrails
here is my comment,In my humble opinion the hummer is nothing but a status simble for the affluent yuppie generation,kinda goes with latte coffie or what ever that stuff is,they are too big ,too heavy ,too costly,use to much fuel and down right ugly,I guess They make good bulavard cruiser's if your into that and can afford the fuel but if you want to go wheelin and go where no man has gone before you better get a jeep ,if you want comfort buy a limo and stay on the road,I don't care what hummer builds I won't ever switch from jeep,on my second one now ,first was an 84 cj7 now have a highly modified 97 tj,love to see a hummer follow me ,It would be nice if jeep would build one with a few more of the off road things like suspension lifts, winches and some of the million things you can get for them

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: steve
here is my comment The Hummer will never be able to overtake Jeep in sales. It's to big for trails guzzels to much gas,and will never be able to match Jeeps reputation.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: ChicagoMark
I live in the middle of downtown Chicago, and I'm one of the very few people who actually takes their vehicle (TJ) off-roading. All the H2s driving around? Just ego-driven purchases that are always spotless and obviously never leave the city. Damn things also take up half the street when they're parked. No one's going to risk scratching their $75k yuppie truck by heading into the woods. But if Hummer comes up with something for under $30k...Jeep's going to have problems.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: icecreamman
here is my comment Let's get a true comparison of vehicles and not just try to find something to write about. Hummer (H2) will never win over a Jeep purist because you will never find one out where a purist can take a Jeep.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Douglas
Yeah Bro...Imagine how they feel as I pull up with my '95 YJ with 127k on odo..and blow away that H-whatever with my JEEP with 215/75/15 street tires!!! And I only paid about $6K for it..Wranglers do rule the world...

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Wyatt
here is my comment

I wonder if Jeep would consider offering an SFA Liberty and Grand Cherokee in just one trim model. Modify them underneath and on the body and call them Liberty and Grand Cherokee Rubicons.

Then you could satisfy most of us - although you'd still be stuck with unibody construction.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: RUBICONTRAIL.NET
I made a typo there. The Hummer H2 ground clearance is 9.7"

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: RUBICONTRAIL.NET
Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
Approach Angle: 44.9
Breakover Angle: 25.4
Departure Angle: 33.9
Ground Clearance: 10.0"
Overall Length: 156.1"
Overall Width: 68.2"

Hummer H2:
Approach Angle: 40.8
Breakover Angle: 25.8
Departure Angle: 39.6
Ground Clearance: 10.0"
Overall Length: 189.8"
Overall Width: 81.2"



Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: TJmudder
"It would be a cold day in hell before we had a hummer that was not capable"????? They have yet to build thier first one!!! I recently attended an off-road event near Barneveld, WI. There was everything from a Geo tracker to built up 600hp monster trucks. There were 3 H1's and 4 H2's. These guys were either stuck or broke at just about every obstacle. Too big, too heavy,too many gadjets, poor power to weight ratio. Good thing they all come with winches. They can't go anywhere or do anything! I kind of felt sorry for these guys. Imagine sitting stuck, in your $65k hummer, while guys with $20k JEEP Wranglers drove easily through the same stretch. Had to be a very humbling experience.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: Sean M.
Hummer is NEVER going to convert Jeep purists. I don't know what kind of pot this guy writing that article is smoking but i want some! :)

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: JeepnMD
All it's going to take for GM to totally get over on Jeep (and Ford's Land Rover) is to offer a SFA option on the Hummers. I can't see why that would be particularly hard for GM since, as far as I can tell, the Hummer H2 is based on a pickup platform that is already designed for a SFA option.

For that matter, Toyota should offer a shortbed Tacoma with the SFA option that is available everywhere except the US. That might draw off a lot of Wrangler buyers

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: jon
"GM may have converted a large percentage of Jeep purists who view Hummer as the Jeep of old."

Yea, I am going to run out and trade in my Wrangler for an H2, H3 or whatever!
Hummer is the Corvette of the new decade. It has nothing to do about off-roading or being capable.
It has everthing to do with status and ego's.
Oh yea- and small penis's.

I think I will hang on to my Grand Cherokee.

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: rescue me
remember everything goes in cycles...jeep just needs to get it together to make a great comeback. hummer overtaking the jeep....yeah i want a HUGE 65K vehicle that won't fit in my gargage and costs me $100 to fill up the tank, i thought their sales were in the tank? these articles are so biased...are these morons anticipating a ground assalt soon?

Poster Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 1969/12/31 19:00  Updated: 1969/12/31 19:00
 Originally posted by: patrick kraft
here is my comment; i've already pulled a H2 out that was trying to pull out a Rover. I don't see a H2 out running my YJ, ever! I also saw an army H1 at a mud rally in maine that only got ten feet of a two hundred foot track.ha ha ha
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